Aug 24Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
Great article, I'm so glad to hear Indie publishing getting voiced as an option. I'm an Indie author - I write different genres and humorous living memoir about living in Italy. By my second year (third book) I had made €100k from my book sales (with no ads and very little marketing) and it became my full-time profession. I have written and self-published 10 books since 2020. My 5 book memoir series is my best seller - I am working on book 6 at the moment. A trad publisher in the States bought the rights to book 1 of the series and this second edition will be out in October.
The trad publisher approached me, and because of their interest, I had no problem getting a good agent who now has a women's fiction book I wrote out on submission. If I can't snag a trad publisher for this book, I know I can publish it myself no problem. Trad publishers are taking a lot of notice of Indies now; look at Colleen Hoover and Lucy Score's success as an example. I know a lot of Indie authors who make 6 figures a year, some have made 7 figure years. It's an option that writers should give serious consideration.
Thank you so much for sharing your inspiring story. I know hardly any trad published authors who make anything like that much, even those who sell reasonably well. I think much depends on genre and how quickly you can write and build up a backlist, but as your story shows, careers can be mix and match these days. 🙂
Aug 26Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
Yes, you are right, a series is the key to success with a lot of Indie authors I know. If someone likes one of their books, they will buy the series. Also, as you know, genres published by Indies are much more extensive than what would be viable for Trad publishers, so if an Indie author finds a hungry audience for what they love to write (alien shifter romance for example), they have hungry readers ready to buy as fast as they can write them. The growth of Indie publishing has opened the creative gates to so many writers who would never have found their audience otherwise. Thanks again for highlighting the delights of Indiedom!
Absolutely here for all of this! Agreed on pricing,@Rosie. This is an enormous difference and the flexibility to adjust pricing as the author wishes is a major asset of indie and the ability to earn.
Aug 26Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
Also, the speed you can get what you write out in front of readers. And that doesn't mean sacrificing quality. There are fantastic freelance editors and cover designers available through services like Reedsy to ensure you give your readers an equally good experience to trad published books.
Agreed on this point -- I adored working with my editor and cover designer and feel very solid about the quality of my books thanks to their incredible work.
This is such a huge piece. Congratulations on such fantastic sales! I hear this story more and more often: one completely valid way to get a mainstream publishing deal is to prove the book has an audience by writing it and publishing it independently. In addition, as your story shows, writers earn much more of sales by publishing themselves. Money isn’t the entire picture, of course, and there are plenty of reasons to publish books beyond the financial. But when a writer is contemplating a career in writing that can pay the bills, Indie publishing is essential to consider.
Advances are hard to earn out but I also saw an amount in my bank account that made a real difference to my bottom line from the first royalty payout from my latest book. This is not part of the process we can afford to ignore. Writers deserve to be well-compensated for their work and I‘m delighted you have been, not only as an indie author, but also when publishers approached you based on that success.
This model feels more and more right to me, the more times I see it happen. Thank you so much for sharing the details!
Well done on earning out your advance - I have heard it's a rare achievement. :) I think the ideal situation is to be a hybrid author - both trad published and indie (for different books of course) and not have all your eggs in one basket. Trad takes away a lot of the heavy lifting, whereas being Indie gives you a lot more control. It did scare the hell out of me to give up my business of 20 years and rely on continued book sales on Amazon to pay the bills, but I was burnt out from my business and writing was always my passion so it was then or never. Thankfully, it worked out. :) I think having a workaholic brain has helped as I am very disciplined about my writing.
Sounds like you're doing amazingly well! I had a quick dig around on your Substack and LOVE what you're doing in Italy. One of my future dreams is to host a luxury writing retreat somewhere gorgeous and you're doing it! 👏
This really resonates with me. I self-published my poetry book in June as the theme (Long Covid) felt so urgent – I didn't want to hang around waiting for a traditional publishing house to slowly do its thing. Having creative & commercial control and working with brilliant people of my choosing has been such a brilliant experience.
Aug 19Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
This was so interesting and reassuring to read. I love that there are increasingly different routes to publishing our words. I’m a long way off this stage but am reassured to know that if/when I get to the point where I’m ready for my words to be sent into the world (ebook or print) then there are options for me.
Thank you, Harriet! I agree with Caroline that focusing on the work is the first thing. It helps to educate ourselves though, certainly, and I'm glad this went some way towards that.😊
I find it always helps me a lot to know where the path ahead could go. The critic seems to jump ahead to the next unknown point and try to freak you out, right? While drafting, it throws „oooh- revision is really hard.“ Once you get the hang of revision, it tries „How will you publish this?“ When you have that under control, it tends to drop one of two fears: “What if you hate your author photo?” or “What if you hate the cover??” Hilarious, really.
I hope this helps pave the way ahead with some calm so you can keep writing. In my experience, finishing the book is the best way to clarify what you want to happen next with it. You’ve got this! 💓
As a non-author consumer of books, this is such a fascinating insight into the publishing industry! Like other independent ventures, self-marketing seems to be a major hurdle. It’s a tough one. Most people are capable, but it’s such a dirty word. It can be fun, though, especially because the most effective marketing is all about storytelling: how you came up with the ideas, what obstacles did you overcome, why was it important to you, etc. Owning those stories can be empowering.
As an avid reader, I’m usually more curious about the author than the book itself. I already bought my first book from a Substack author because I really like her, even though it’s not my preferred genre. So self-publishing appeals to me from a reader perspective in terms of personal connection. I think you’re spot on, Caroline. Oh, and that 7 year old comment cracked me up!
Love hearing this perspective, Sandra! It’s true- I do get very interested in writers ans enjoy their books even more when I connect with the writers as people.
The big struggle for me is that, while I can shift my mind to thinking of marketing as a story, I’d always rather write another book rather than having to focus on the story of marketing it. This is how it works though— I’m learning more and more ways to balance the two. Being on substack has helped a lot- it’s way more fun to chat with people about books than to come
up with “Marketing Plans” that don’t feel like actual connection. Glad you got a chuckle
Aug 17Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
I completely get it! I’m terrible at SEO too. No matter how much I try, it just doesn’t click for me—it’s pure torture! Honestly, we can only juggle so much, and there are only 24 hours in a day. But I truly believe that at the heart of it, marketing is all about connection and anyone that goes the independent route in any industry can succeed if they keep that in mind. You’re evidence of that!
I so agree about marketing. I was hesitant for so long and found it painful, but shifting my mindset around it (and a lot of trial and error) has eased the path. And a great marketing coach 😆. As Caroline says, I think the struggle for most is that they just don’t WANT to do all that stuff. It’s a skill in itself and that not what they signed up for when they started writing. But chatting about books - now that does appeal! 😁
Aug 16Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
As a debut author and freshly minted MFA (Drexel University in Philly), I have come to realize what a total crap shoot it is that the right agent will uncover your novel at the right moment from their slush pile, decide to read more, love the manuscript, and then find a willing publisher. One of the main obstacles is the sheer amount of time this takes. Years, if it happens at all. It has caused me to rethink what I really want and expect out of the writing life . . . as have several of your recent posts. I did learn during the program that they are many paths to publishing, but I still had a bias (until very recently) toward the traditional route. Thanks!
I totally agree with @Katherine here. What I love about the expanded options within both indie and mainstream is that there IS always a way to get that book into readers hands.
In the past,no agent meant no book. I’ve been reminded this week of yet another option that’s been around since 2011: Unbound Publishers. As Katherine rightly says, there is a lot that mainstream publishing can help with, primarily getting books into actual bookshops. If the agent issue is tripping you up,
Unbound might be an option: you share the premise of your book like you would for a kickstarter, and if you reach a benchmark number of pre-orders, Unbound publishing will publish your book.
Tom Cox’s novels have come out through there. Looking at the lovely hardback I have of The Village, I flipped through — as I always do — to see who put it out and was thrilled to see it was Unbound.
New options are appearing all the time. If working with a publisher matters to you, there are ways to do it without an agent, that aren’t you paying to have the book put out.
Keep watching the industry, as there is more and more to choose from all the time!
Aug 16·edited Aug 16Liked by Katherine Clements, Caroline Donahue
Yes, thanks, I am not ready to give up after 20 queries — many of which have not responded yet — I just understand now to not put all my eggs in that basket. There are other baskets!
I think that mainstream publishing still offers certain things that other avenues can't and it is still my preferred route for fiction personally, but I find that that being open to alternatives means that I KNOW my book will find its way into the world. Having a plan A, plan B, plan C etc. for my work means that rejections from the trad industry are not the end of the line, which is reassuring and empowering. Educating yourself about ALL the options, pros and cons, is a wise move for any writer. Knowledge is power, as they say!
Aug 16Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
This is so helpful - for a long time I’ve been chewing on the idea of trad pub, but when I worked with two local indie presses for anthologies, the process was so smooth and quick that it has me wondering. I think I mostly imagined trad pub would handle everything, now I’m learning I have to do my own marketing and if you have to do that… then you can hire the editors and cover designers etc. Thank you for all of this advice.
So glad this was helpful @Niyyah Ruscher-Haqq! Thrilled to hear you had such a good experience with local indie presses as well. There are tons of choices these days and so many ways to approach them. And agreed- most new authors need to take on the majority of the marketing duties regardless of where they publish. So, knowing that, what feels like the best fit for you? I’m excited to see what you do next!
Aug 17Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
I am considering some small presses, where you have a bit more control and involvement. Some authors I know that are farther down their path have advised that many authors have a blend of both some traditional publishing and self/indie pub. I have a bit of time before I jump into querying and if that process is smooth I may give that a go, but my experiences in the past and some connections have made me less scared about finding an editor and seeking professional help to turn out work I love, in the end!
Excellent plan! There are so many unknowns when you first start thinking about publication — I found it really intimidating, but having been through it a few times
now, I see that each time I learn more. Working with a press of any size would be the same — just more thing to learn by going through it. Best of luck (also, can I please say that I LOVE your glasses? 😍)
They’re the real deal! I don’t wear them every day because of the size but they make me feel like I could be either the sage or the villain of the story
I’m currently working with a small press and it’s great to have the direct contact and collaboration with the person in charge. Feels more like a true partnership so far. I wish you all the luck, whichever way you go!
What I like about Caroline's approach is the idea of what's right for each book. So trad pub might be right for some, but not for others. It opens the door to lots of exciting options!
Aug 16Liked by Caroline Donahue, Katherine Clements
I’m still stuck in the mindset that anything other than traditionally published is “less than” but this article has opened my mind. I’m still kinda stuck but the glue has weakened a bit. Thanks Katherine and Caroline.
Yay @Brian Rendell! I’m glad to hear this. I have found that there are incredible books being published independently and there are also not-so-great indie books, too. But this is also the case with big publishing houses. It’s really about figuring out what matters to you most and picking the option that supports that. There are so many possibilities now — it’s really an exciting time for books.
I'm really fascinated by why we think this because, as Caroline points out, it's actually a relatively recent thing. There are many factors that play into it, I guess. The options that are open to writers now are genuinely exciting. People are forging new paths and we should be heartened by that.
Great article, I'm so glad to hear Indie publishing getting voiced as an option. I'm an Indie author - I write different genres and humorous living memoir about living in Italy. By my second year (third book) I had made €100k from my book sales (with no ads and very little marketing) and it became my full-time profession. I have written and self-published 10 books since 2020. My 5 book memoir series is my best seller - I am working on book 6 at the moment. A trad publisher in the States bought the rights to book 1 of the series and this second edition will be out in October.
The trad publisher approached me, and because of their interest, I had no problem getting a good agent who now has a women's fiction book I wrote out on submission. If I can't snag a trad publisher for this book, I know I can publish it myself no problem. Trad publishers are taking a lot of notice of Indies now; look at Colleen Hoover and Lucy Score's success as an example. I know a lot of Indie authors who make 6 figures a year, some have made 7 figure years. It's an option that writers should give serious consideration.
Thank you so much for sharing your inspiring story. I know hardly any trad published authors who make anything like that much, even those who sell reasonably well. I think much depends on genre and how quickly you can write and build up a backlist, but as your story shows, careers can be mix and match these days. 🙂
Yes, you are right, a series is the key to success with a lot of Indie authors I know. If someone likes one of their books, they will buy the series. Also, as you know, genres published by Indies are much more extensive than what would be viable for Trad publishers, so if an Indie author finds a hungry audience for what they love to write (alien shifter romance for example), they have hungry readers ready to buy as fast as they can write them. The growth of Indie publishing has opened the creative gates to so many writers who would never have found their audience otherwise. Thanks again for highlighting the delights of Indiedom!
I love this point. It feels rebellious, representative and empowering and I’m here for it!
Rebellious for the win!
Yeaaa Up the Rebels!! :D
Absolutely here for all of this! Agreed on pricing,@Rosie. This is an enormous difference and the flexibility to adjust pricing as the author wishes is a major asset of indie and the ability to earn.
Also, the speed you can get what you write out in front of readers. And that doesn't mean sacrificing quality. There are fantastic freelance editors and cover designers available through services like Reedsy to ensure you give your readers an equally good experience to trad published books.
Agreed on this point -- I adored working with my editor and cover designer and feel very solid about the quality of my books thanks to their incredible work.
This is such a huge piece. Congratulations on such fantastic sales! I hear this story more and more often: one completely valid way to get a mainstream publishing deal is to prove the book has an audience by writing it and publishing it independently. In addition, as your story shows, writers earn much more of sales by publishing themselves. Money isn’t the entire picture, of course, and there are plenty of reasons to publish books beyond the financial. But when a writer is contemplating a career in writing that can pay the bills, Indie publishing is essential to consider.
Advances are hard to earn out but I also saw an amount in my bank account that made a real difference to my bottom line from the first royalty payout from my latest book. This is not part of the process we can afford to ignore. Writers deserve to be well-compensated for their work and I‘m delighted you have been, not only as an indie author, but also when publishers approached you based on that success.
This model feels more and more right to me, the more times I see it happen. Thank you so much for sharing the details!
Well done on earning out your advance - I have heard it's a rare achievement. :) I think the ideal situation is to be a hybrid author - both trad published and indie (for different books of course) and not have all your eggs in one basket. Trad takes away a lot of the heavy lifting, whereas being Indie gives you a lot more control. It did scare the hell out of me to give up my business of 20 years and rely on continued book sales on Amazon to pay the bills, but I was burnt out from my business and writing was always my passion so it was then or never. Thankfully, it worked out. :) I think having a workaholic brain has helped as I am very disciplined about my writing.
Sounds like you're doing amazingly well! I had a quick dig around on your Substack and LOVE what you're doing in Italy. One of my future dreams is to host a luxury writing retreat somewhere gorgeous and you're doing it! 👏
This really resonates with me. I self-published my poetry book in June as the theme (Long Covid) felt so urgent – I didn't want to hang around waiting for a traditional publishing house to slowly do its thing. Having creative & commercial control and working with brilliant people of my choosing has been such a brilliant experience.
This was so interesting and reassuring to read. I love that there are increasingly different routes to publishing our words. I’m a long way off this stage but am reassured to know that if/when I get to the point where I’m ready for my words to be sent into the world (ebook or print) then there are options for me.
Thank you, Harriet! I agree with Caroline that focusing on the work is the first thing. It helps to educate ourselves though, certainly, and I'm glad this went some way towards that.😊
I find it always helps me a lot to know where the path ahead could go. The critic seems to jump ahead to the next unknown point and try to freak you out, right? While drafting, it throws „oooh- revision is really hard.“ Once you get the hang of revision, it tries „How will you publish this?“ When you have that under control, it tends to drop one of two fears: “What if you hate your author photo?” or “What if you hate the cover??” Hilarious, really.
I hope this helps pave the way ahead with some calm so you can keep writing. In my experience, finishing the book is the best way to clarify what you want to happen next with it. You’ve got this! 💓
What a fascinating read! It feels a very empowering choice…..
Thank you so much for reading!
Exactly the word that comes to me too - empowering!
As a non-author consumer of books, this is such a fascinating insight into the publishing industry! Like other independent ventures, self-marketing seems to be a major hurdle. It’s a tough one. Most people are capable, but it’s such a dirty word. It can be fun, though, especially because the most effective marketing is all about storytelling: how you came up with the ideas, what obstacles did you overcome, why was it important to you, etc. Owning those stories can be empowering.
As an avid reader, I’m usually more curious about the author than the book itself. I already bought my first book from a Substack author because I really like her, even though it’s not my preferred genre. So self-publishing appeals to me from a reader perspective in terms of personal connection. I think you’re spot on, Caroline. Oh, and that 7 year old comment cracked me up!
Love hearing this perspective, Sandra! It’s true- I do get very interested in writers ans enjoy their books even more when I connect with the writers as people.
The big struggle for me is that, while I can shift my mind to thinking of marketing as a story, I’d always rather write another book rather than having to focus on the story of marketing it. This is how it works though— I’m learning more and more ways to balance the two. Being on substack has helped a lot- it’s way more fun to chat with people about books than to come
up with “Marketing Plans” that don’t feel like actual connection. Glad you got a chuckle
out of this- that’s a win. 😆
I completely get it! I’m terrible at SEO too. No matter how much I try, it just doesn’t click for me—it’s pure torture! Honestly, we can only juggle so much, and there are only 24 hours in a day. But I truly believe that at the heart of it, marketing is all about connection and anyone that goes the independent route in any industry can succeed if they keep that in mind. You’re evidence of that!
I so agree about marketing. I was hesitant for so long and found it painful, but shifting my mindset around it (and a lot of trial and error) has eased the path. And a great marketing coach 😆. As Caroline says, I think the struggle for most is that they just don’t WANT to do all that stuff. It’s a skill in itself and that not what they signed up for when they started writing. But chatting about books - now that does appeal! 😁
Maybe we just keep chatting about books all the time on here and see where that leads us? 😍📚
Yes! Chatting about books never gets old!
Agreed!
*and enjoy their books more. Butterfingers! (or thumbs, really, as am on the phone)
As a debut author and freshly minted MFA (Drexel University in Philly), I have come to realize what a total crap shoot it is that the right agent will uncover your novel at the right moment from their slush pile, decide to read more, love the manuscript, and then find a willing publisher. One of the main obstacles is the sheer amount of time this takes. Years, if it happens at all. It has caused me to rethink what I really want and expect out of the writing life . . . as have several of your recent posts. I did learn during the program that they are many paths to publishing, but I still had a bias (until very recently) toward the traditional route. Thanks!
I totally agree with @Katherine here. What I love about the expanded options within both indie and mainstream is that there IS always a way to get that book into readers hands.
In the past,no agent meant no book. I’ve been reminded this week of yet another option that’s been around since 2011: Unbound Publishers. As Katherine rightly says, there is a lot that mainstream publishing can help with, primarily getting books into actual bookshops. If the agent issue is tripping you up,
Unbound might be an option: you share the premise of your book like you would for a kickstarter, and if you reach a benchmark number of pre-orders, Unbound publishing will publish your book.
Tom Cox’s novels have come out through there. Looking at the lovely hardback I have of The Village, I flipped through — as I always do — to see who put it out and was thrilled to see it was Unbound.
New options are appearing all the time. If working with a publisher matters to you, there are ways to do it without an agent, that aren’t you paying to have the book put out.
Keep watching the industry, as there is more and more to choose from all the time!
Yes, thanks, I am not ready to give up after 20 queries — many of which have not responded yet — I just understand now to not put all my eggs in that basket. There are other baskets!
As many baskets as you want! And by all means, keep going — you never know when things will click. ✨
I think that mainstream publishing still offers certain things that other avenues can't and it is still my preferred route for fiction personally, but I find that that being open to alternatives means that I KNOW my book will find its way into the world. Having a plan A, plan B, plan C etc. for my work means that rejections from the trad industry are not the end of the line, which is reassuring and empowering. Educating yourself about ALL the options, pros and cons, is a wise move for any writer. Knowledge is power, as they say!
This is such a great piece, thank you for chatting through so many options and aspects!
Thank you for reading! 😊
My pleasure! The more people feel empowered to put out their books, the better off we all are.💓
This is so helpful - for a long time I’ve been chewing on the idea of trad pub, but when I worked with two local indie presses for anthologies, the process was so smooth and quick that it has me wondering. I think I mostly imagined trad pub would handle everything, now I’m learning I have to do my own marketing and if you have to do that… then you can hire the editors and cover designers etc. Thank you for all of this advice.
So glad this was helpful @Niyyah Ruscher-Haqq! Thrilled to hear you had such a good experience with local indie presses as well. There are tons of choices these days and so many ways to approach them. And agreed- most new authors need to take on the majority of the marketing duties regardless of where they publish. So, knowing that, what feels like the best fit for you? I’m excited to see what you do next!
I am considering some small presses, where you have a bit more control and involvement. Some authors I know that are farther down their path have advised that many authors have a blend of both some traditional publishing and self/indie pub. I have a bit of time before I jump into querying and if that process is smooth I may give that a go, but my experiences in the past and some connections have made me less scared about finding an editor and seeking professional help to turn out work I love, in the end!
Excellent plan! There are so many unknowns when you first start thinking about publication — I found it really intimidating, but having been through it a few times
now, I see that each time I learn more. Working with a press of any size would be the same — just more thing to learn by going through it. Best of luck (also, can I please say that I LOVE your glasses? 😍)
We are all in this together. Thanks so much ! (Both for the encouragement and the compliment )
My pleasure! I can see from zooming in those may be costume glasses, but I’d go for the real thing if you need specs- love. 😍
They’re the real deal! I don’t wear them every day because of the size but they make me feel like I could be either the sage or the villain of the story
I’m currently working with a small press and it’s great to have the direct contact and collaboration with the person in charge. Feels more like a true partnership so far. I wish you all the luck, whichever way you go!
I love hearing small press stories — so many I’ve heard recently have been super positive.
What I like about Caroline's approach is the idea of what's right for each book. So trad pub might be right for some, but not for others. It opens the door to lots of exciting options!
Absolutely! It doesn't have to be one or the other forever at all.
I’m still stuck in the mindset that anything other than traditionally published is “less than” but this article has opened my mind. I’m still kinda stuck but the glue has weakened a bit. Thanks Katherine and Caroline.
Yay @Brian Rendell! I’m glad to hear this. I have found that there are incredible books being published independently and there are also not-so-great indie books, too. But this is also the case with big publishing houses. It’s really about figuring out what matters to you most and picking the option that supports that. There are so many possibilities now — it’s really an exciting time for books.
I'm really fascinated by why we think this because, as Caroline points out, it's actually a relatively recent thing. There are many factors that play into it, I guess. The options that are open to writers now are genuinely exciting. People are forging new paths and we should be heartened by that.